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awareness
June 2009 
Around and around we humans go; where we stop.....nobody knows!
Posted on Oct 15th, 2008
by 
Centria
Centria
I've been pondering this morning the ways that our exchanges on Gaia are sometimes a little like a big Voice Dialogue session. There's differences, of course. But the similarities are also interesting.
In a Voice Dialogue session, it soon apparent that there's usually a problem. Two of the parts of self (or sixteen parts of the self, or whatever) are disagreeing. They're in war mode, defensive mode, attack mode, protection mode.....you know, we've all been through this routine thousands of times during our trips around the sun.
As humans we're setting and breaking boundaries. We're expanding awareness, whether we like it or not. We're seemingly on a journey that asks us to include opposite awarenesses in our consciousness. As definitive selves, we're not always pleased to do this. Or we may be pleased on an ideal level to use terms such as "Oneness", "unity" and "love"....but on an actual nitty-gritty level, we're willing to fight with gritted teeth to protect our viewpoints, cherished ideas and perspectives.
So in a Voice Dialogue session, or in an issue here on Gaia, or in a discussion between any two viewpoints.....it seems like we divide awareness into polarities and then each side proceeds to defend the specific awareness. You can take any issue. Name a half dozen. Enlightenment exists; enlightenment doesn't exist. We should throw the TV out the window; we should stay informed. We should be a Lightworker; we should engage the dark. Obama should be president, McCain should be president. Global warming exists, global warming doesn't exist. We should bomb Iraq; we should not bomb Iraq. We should de-friend this person; we shouldn't de-friend this person. On and on it goes. Welcome to the Human School.
So here we are in the process of claiming a self, claiming viewpoints. And I'm not saying this is wrong. (whoops, well maybe part of me is saying it's wrong....but that part does not get to speak up right now. Shhhh.....) In a culture, in a society, in human beings there are choices to be made. We're not exempt. We seemingly must decide, even if it's little things like "what should we have for dinner?" (I want ice cream! I want to eat healthy!)
Part of my life-work or mission (and that of many others who are tiring of what seems like a limiting old paradigm) seems to involve somehow perceiving both of the voices of the selves, inside and outside, and then embracing an awareness that includes both. This is sometimes so tricky. It's like being an eagle or hawk or chickadee and looking down at the scene below your wings. There's a wolf killing a rabbit. The eagle view looks at both....and doesn't judge....but sees the necessity of the pattern of killing, eating, existing, living, dying.
From the rabbit's angle it's evil. From the wolf's angle it's good: without the food, the babies will die. From the eagle's perspective there's a process of life and awareness being played out. It's neither good nor bad; it is.
In our human forms, we are going to continue our expressions, our dialogues between seeming opposites. But can we also stretch our awareness to include dynamics beyond our individual viewpoint? Can we do that and not be scared that viewing other possibilities will disturb the balance? I know I sometimes can and sometimes can't. When I can, the gifts are multitude.
This is not about choosing awareness. This is not a blog about choosing sides at all. Through the process of talking and sharing a multitude of views, a consensus usually forms. Whether the consensus is "good" or "bad" usually goes back to a sense of individual viewpoint.
I am simply suggesting giving ourselves the gift of widening beyond original viewpoints, if one can, when one is ready. There are many wars in the world. This side claiming right; that side claiming right. When one explores the opposite viewpoint and finds where that can fit in this entity we call a "self"....if one claims victim mentality, one might find the ways one is a perpetrator. If one is a perpetrator, one might find the victim within oneself. If one wants to be enlightened, is there another part of the self that doesn't want to be enlightened? If one wants to toss the TV, is there a part of self that wants to stay informed?
Tremendous peace can come from expanding awareness. Even with baby steps of awareness. My prayer is that we can somehow embrace this awareness in a way that honors and respects the interplay of seeming polarities on this Earth Walk.
In a Voice Dialogue session, it soon apparent that there's usually a problem. Two of the parts of self (or sixteen parts of the self, or whatever) are disagreeing. They're in war mode, defensive mode, attack mode, protection mode.....you know, we've all been through this routine thousands of times during our trips around the sun.
As humans we're setting and breaking boundaries. We're expanding awareness, whether we like it or not. We're seemingly on a journey that asks us to include opposite awarenesses in our consciousness. As definitive selves, we're not always pleased to do this. Or we may be pleased on an ideal level to use terms such as "Oneness", "unity" and "love"....but on an actual nitty-gritty level, we're willing to fight with gritted teeth to protect our viewpoints, cherished ideas and perspectives.
So in a Voice Dialogue session, or in an issue here on Gaia, or in a discussion between any two viewpoints.....it seems like we divide awareness into polarities and then each side proceeds to defend the specific awareness. You can take any issue. Name a half dozen. Enlightenment exists; enlightenment doesn't exist. We should throw the TV out the window; we should stay informed. We should be a Lightworker; we should engage the dark. Obama should be president, McCain should be president. Global warming exists, global warming doesn't exist. We should bomb Iraq; we should not bomb Iraq. We should de-friend this person; we shouldn't de-friend this person. On and on it goes. Welcome to the Human School.
So here we are in the process of claiming a self, claiming viewpoints. And I'm not saying this is wrong. (whoops, well maybe part of me is saying it's wrong....but that part does not get to speak up right now. Shhhh.....) In a culture, in a society, in human beings there are choices to be made. We're not exempt. We seemingly must decide, even if it's little things like "what should we have for dinner?" (I want ice cream! I want to eat healthy!)
Part of my life-work or mission (and that of many others who are tiring of what seems like a limiting old paradigm) seems to involve somehow perceiving both of the voices of the selves, inside and outside, and then embracing an awareness that includes both. This is sometimes so tricky. It's like being an eagle or hawk or chickadee and looking down at the scene below your wings. There's a wolf killing a rabbit. The eagle view looks at both....and doesn't judge....but sees the necessity of the pattern of killing, eating, existing, living, dying.
From the rabbit's angle it's evil. From the wolf's angle it's good: without the food, the babies will die. From the eagle's perspective there's a process of life and awareness being played out. It's neither good nor bad; it is.
In our human forms, we are going to continue our expressions, our dialogues between seeming opposites. But can we also stretch our awareness to include dynamics beyond our individual viewpoint? Can we do that and not be scared that viewing other possibilities will disturb the balance? I know I sometimes can and sometimes can't. When I can, the gifts are multitude.
This is not about choosing awareness. This is not a blog about choosing sides at all. Through the process of talking and sharing a multitude of views, a consensus usually forms. Whether the consensus is "good" or "bad" usually goes back to a sense of individual viewpoint.
I am simply suggesting giving ourselves the gift of widening beyond original viewpoints, if one can, when one is ready. There are many wars in the world. This side claiming right; that side claiming right. When one explores the opposite viewpoint and finds where that can fit in this entity we call a "self"....if one claims victim mentality, one might find the ways one is a perpetrator. If one is a perpetrator, one might find the victim within oneself. If one wants to be enlightened, is there another part of the self that doesn't want to be enlightened? If one wants to toss the TV, is there a part of self that wants to stay informed?
Tremendous peace can come from expanding awareness. Even with baby steps of awareness. My prayer is that we can somehow embrace this awareness in a way that honors and respects the interplay of seeming polarities on this Earth Walk.
Access: Public
Thanks!! And I didn't even have to call you for that!! hehehe….though i might have created less of a shambles here had i stopped being stubborn and watching and asked you the next question…big hugs ty for my smile
I think the eagle would swoosh down and grab the rabbit if he get there quicker than the fox. As for me, I'm in the pie ala mode mode. Although rabbit stew before would really hit the spot.
You two!….smiling….thanks, Elisa….
Tom, you know, I almost edited that part out about the eagle. Because of course the eagle would swoop in and try to eat the wolf and the rabbit….if it was hungry. We were just gonna pretend that the eagle momentary had some all-seeing characteristics due to its elevated perspective up there in the skies. And that its stomach was full, having just eaten some fish. Yikes! I am now defending metaphors…..a perfect place to insert larger awareness. :)
truth is…the universe is unfolding…this very moment…without my help…LOL…hello to all…Kathy, you are correct ofcourse; when we can see beyond polar opposites…the only truth is the one that takes no sides…joy*
Wise words! Indeed, each one is expanding her/his awareness, whether we are conscious about it or not. Joining you in your prayer that we somehow embrace our expanding awareness in our journeys. Blessings, dear Kathy!
yes, to go on deeper into oneness it is important to get stronger at observing without choosing.
right now, though, the pain of one is very present, and I'm aware that both not choosing and listening to the other can feel like betrayal in the midst of emotional distress.
i accept the fact that probably neither will see what i offer right now as support. but this, too, is part of the process, and i embrace it.
Nicole…i agree…when we take a side…we shut the other side out…and that is something that i am not willing to do…my compassion is all inclusive…and there is enough harsh truth to go around for all of us…each of us must take responsibility for our beliefs, our thoughts, our feelings, and our actions…that is part of getting past whatever it is we are tying to get past…and it is a big part of identifying our own truth in this reality…every painful experience is a chance to open up and grow into a healthy relationship with ourselves and others in reality…much love and joy to all*
Hi guys….more food for thought…..not sure how to express this. (maybe should go back into the silence and think some more, but will give it a try.) It's almost as if not choosing a side still puts us back in duality thinking. That the very act of saying we're not choosing a side brings forth a possible new battle of “I choose sides” versus “I don't choose sides.”
Awareness doesn't necessarily mean we don't choose sides, although sometimes it can mean that. It means there's a third factor in our witnessing. Maybe awareness is the act of witnessing itself, and it is what's beyond sides….if I am making any logical sense at all.
I can just see that when we start a discussion about not choosing sides we're bound to find ourselves right back in duality thinking.
Star….I think maybe we're expressing the same thing with different words, but not sure. Mila, yes it about expanding awareness, and oh! what a journey we're on.
Nicole, to stay in that place of observing without choosing is sometimes just as painful as to choose. We can feel the pain from so many directions and yet what you say rings so true to me. It's part of the process. It doesn't really matter if others recognize that not choosing can be as huge a support as choosing.
With the feeble words we're all trying to use to express this (maybe just the feeble words I'm using to express this!) I know I'm attempting to just gesture towards a way of perceiving that we all utilize….but can be very helpful in times of challenge and stress to expand our awareness.
awareness is our own true nature…that presence of being…minus our idea's concerning it…when you act from this space, it is correct action, whether it is viewed as such or not…it is a nonconceptual space of knowing the truth and clarity of this moment of now…your own bliss…your own joy…and it is only conditioning that knocks you out of it…or prevents you from recognizing it…
as far as duality goes…when you can see beyond duality of choices to the truth of it all…in that moment…you are experiencing your own rigpa…your own true nature…your own presence of being…buddha's bliss…the peace of christ…the love of god or allah…
awareness takes no sides…not even the side of taking no sides…although it may appear to…for there are no actual sides to take…LOL…much love and joy…*
one more thought of my awareness…lol…the idea of the witness or observer is also gone…there is only nonconceptual presence of being…
Perhaps it's not about the choices themselves but about our relationship to the choices we make. Yesterday I ran across this quote on meenakshi's blog which just blew me away:
“This ego is harmless; it is like the skeleton of a burnt rope–though it has a form, it is of no use to tie anything with.”
So while we have to make choices we don't need to be attached to our choice, we can become shape-shifters. Right now I'm a rabbit and I'm one with the rabbits and I feel their fear of the fox and I'm sad when the sick among them is taken and in then next moment I'm the fox and I feel his emptiness and I see his teacher lurking in the shadows and I see the fox's wound and I have compassion for his emptiness and for the wound which drives his ruthlessness. I fly with the eagle above it, I dwell as mole below, I am the air that is shared by them all.
Thanks, Star, for coming back to clarify and not taking sides against my taking sides. ha ha…. I like this: awareness takes no sides…not even the side of taking no sides…although it may appear to…for there are no actual sides to take
Doug! Yes, I like what you have to say, as well. You know, I was struggling in the last comment and wanting to express similar to what you said….it's more like being all sides for the moment they're expressing themselves….being present with all the parts that are coming up. But you said it so much better. I love how you express things; pure poetry flowing from your words. Thank you so much, and also for the quote on Meenakshi's blog. How appropos to this discussion we're all having.
Because we're all of it: The Side being expressed, the opposite viewpoint which is being expressed, that which witnesses, and then something which dissolves the witness into what is. I am thinking that this doesn't look very practical and use-able, but it seems to be.
who cares how it looks? LOL…it is practical and useful for those that find it so…for those that don't…look beneath the surface…LMAO…it is only when we are able to look beneath that surface that we can open up to the INFINITE layers of awareness…aint it fun? much joy*
i too loved Doug's entry…dude…you're awesome!
Kathy, i think this to be a great discussion…(of course, what do i know…lol) thnx…
You have very valid points. =) have a beautiful day.
You know: I was thinking about this post.
I don't know about the eagle, the mole, the fox, or the rabbit, but I do know about choosing. I can't say whether the fox has gratitude for the rabbit. I can't say whether the rabbit thinks of herself as a perfect offering right in the moment of the fox's strike. Maybe the eagle is all bent about the fox eating the rabbit first and is thinking like an eagle victim. Or wishing the fox indigestion.
As a human being, all my thoughts are okay. I have to accept where I am to move forward. When I am thinking like a perpertrator that's okay. When I am thinking like a victim, choosing to be a victim: That's okay too.
It is my actions that tell the story and ALL MY actions are based upon choice; I am an animal that chooses: like it, or not. In choosing I do not get a choice.
I do vacilate. I am sometimes fickle, or confused. That's okay too. ALL those choices and not choices are MY spiritual Path. I am learning what I need to learn to be exactly where I am, or I am not. As are WE all. And that has to be okay.
“What is, is. What is not, is not.”
I was having some thoughts about the practicality of being all things at once and while that is real and possible in a non-ordinary reality sort of way, it's not possible in the ordinary reality sense. The fact is we have to choose even if the choice is passivity or being the eagle above it all. The social me wants to huddle with the rabbits because it's what is pc right now. Yeah damn that fox!
I love the company and how human to deepen our connection via a common enemy.
My tendancy is to either be the mole being oblivious or to fly over head thinking Hmm interesting, but not my problem.
But I'm feeling that where I should be is to shift through all the forms, to feel all the directions and then choose the quietest voice and follow the wound back to the source. And since we are creating, maybe we can create a fox-rabbit-eagle and then choose to be that?
Yes I want to be on the side of balance!
Star, even if not one other person comments….it is a great discussion. 'cuz it's got us thinking and hopefully expanding our awareness some more!
Jessica, glad you stopped by. It's interesting to ponder this whole subject, if we can keep our heads above water. :)
TextMage….wow….you have really added some spice to this discussion. In choosing I do not get a choice. Now that's something to think about. When we choose, that's it. Of course, to muddy the waters even more (are you SURE you want to be my friend?) what is it within us that chooses? That's another topic altogther. An entire new blog. As one witnesses and watches the choosing….who is doing the choosing? That is one answer that completely eludes me. What part of a sometimes non-existent “I” chooses to act? Never mind! You don't need to answer this. But I am very grateful you stopped by to offer your wisdom.
Doug, ha ha, you have me laughing again. You are really a funny guy. As we grapevined earlier….yesterday Emma asked me what animal I was….and I said “a rabbit.” So, as a rabbit, I sure as hell don't want to be eaten. It IS a conundrum. And we do have certain tendencies as human beings. We lean more towards being that eagle, that fox (wolf!), that mole, that whatever. The practicality of being all things at once…..don't know about that being simultaneous. Part of me wants it to be simultaneous. But someone said to me last July, “Kathy it's not about everything happening at once.” And that seemed important advice. But like you, I feel a need or desire or necessity, to shift through all the forms. And then, with all the forms swirling around, something chooses. Something acts. Something that sometimes seems beyond personal perceptions….or encompasses them…..or something.
Hi Kathy,
Great blog.
I'm just going to do some thinking aloud, just stuff that comes up while reading this. And I'm hearing some great responses too, like Doug's about becoming shapeshifters , or Starlight's words in the context of 'awareness being our true nature, non conceptual space of knowing the truth of this moment of now, presence of being without conditioning'. I resonate with that, not just with the words but I've had my moments of being there. But still I wonder, can we ever really be without our conditioning?
One of the sentences you wrote jumped out for me and it was the question: But can we also stretch our awareness to include dynamics beyond our individual viewpoint?
To me this is so interesting. Yes, we can grow into an awarenes beyond our opinions, beyond of the roles we play of what we are or should be, beyond duality of good or bad or right or wrong, beyond of what we call our conditioning into just 'being with what is'. But can we really look beyond our viewpoint in a broader sense? Now it might be a matter of semantics in that your use of the word viewpoint might be simply that of opinion, but I'd like to strecht it a bit more.
What I am trying to say is, we can look from a very narrowminded point of view of where we're still very identified with our opinions or we can look from a way more enlightened point of view but it is still US that's looking. We can't get beyond Us, can we? Mind me, I'm not voicing any opinion here, I'm just thinking out loud. (Your great blogs do this to me, lol!) I don't know, I wonder about conditioning. Isn't our evolving, our growing and expanding not a conditioning in itself? We're 'tuning in' yes, if we come into a greater presence of awareness but do we view this greater awareness that awaits us when 'we tune into the right channel' as a 'presupposed ready made package' , or is God / Universe evolving with us and are we creating this step by step, thus following a certain conditioning?
As an evolving species, can we really get beyond our conditioning? We came to this point by some means of (spiritual) evolution. We can never look beyond the point of where we are, can we?
Ah well, this might stretch a bit beyond your original question, but it's fun to watch these little braincells jump a bit.
THis is wonderful Kathy…like you! At any given moment we can be an inspiration or a mess….nobody is exempt as we all are human. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt so when its my turn in the 'mess' chair somebody might have compassion. But sometimes I dont do so well with that when my buttons are pushed. We are all on the path, in different places, with different visions and beliefs…gathering them all together in peace is everyones life work to be sure. Love you Kathy…just another reminder of why I call you my friend! hugs
Alluvja, i will try and answer your questions, as they pertain to what i posted, and explain what i meant by conditioning…
we are awareness experiencing humanness…and i have found that to be wonder-filled, as long as i am a body, mind, and voice, that is what i am, and i have no desire to be anything other than that…i fully embrace my humanness…
what i do not embrace, is all those conditioned beliefs that have led to erroneous beliefs that have in turn lead to guilt, manipulation, control, illusion, suffering, and an out and out fantasy and irresponsibility of life…the denial of our reality, as it is, and the lack of responsibility for our own beliefs, our own thoughts,
our own feelings and actions…it is ridiculous…this creates so much suffering that is so unnecessary…
if we just grow up and live life on it's own terms…respecting all of life,
especially our own human existence…and the earth that supplies that very existence…i am certain we would find life more than enjoyable…
i learned through conditioning how to walk and see, and hear, and read, and do math, and understand science and enjoy lovemaking, food, and the many things that make me human…i would not want to undo that, nor do i find that necessary along this journey…
as far as what is beyond this very human conditioning…since there would be no me to know, how would i? LOL…and i don't really care…i plan on taking advantage of every moment that i am given now…and living it to the fullest…and that doesn't mean that i necessarily have to be doing anything special…b/c i don't…it is in that space of awareness, minus the illusions and conditioning that cause suffering, that i can experience my humanness freely…and i love
it…it is awesome…i am human…and experiencing that awareness freely, embodying my very humanness…without unhealthy conditioning…sets me free…
i no longer need to escape being human, b/c i am able to be free of conditioned suffering; i am also given clarity of the moment, in that i can see truth of the now…and that is all that is relevant…
in that space of awareness…that flows through my very being…body, mind, and voice…in the presence of now…i am happy, joyous, and free…
much love and joy*
Thank you dear starlight for your sweet, clear and lovely response.
I kind of knew what you meant by conditioning. So there's no disagreements with what you're saying, in fact I resonate and dance along.
Yes, isn't it wonderful !
I was just sponteneous following a trail of thoughts, playing a bit with it…it's late here I should go to bed, it must be that moon…that's keeping me up, not the wondering really..(lol)
Much love and joy to you too!
My Buddhist teacher told me to give up opinions because it is our crazy ideas and opinions about everything that causes suffering - to ourselves and others,
especially when we take action on them. Be still…….
OOoooops! Premature posting - well at least it didn't get eaten.
Anyway, this is not an easy thing to do, believe me. But I am finding it saves me a lot of grief. And I still get into the fray, but I realize it earlier, that I have disturbed my peace, and I GET OUT EARLY. I don't wonder/speculate about stuff anymore. I am 66..
lol buddhists are some of the MOST opinionated and attached persons i know :D
Alluvya, I read your lovely flowing questioning last night….the ramblings of your mind….and thought “she's on to something important here, but I need to be more awake to grasp it.” Now I'm awake and thinking…..maybe I need to be more awake to grasp it! (smiling) Because the only answer that is coming from this really interesting pondering about conditioning is: I don't know.
Sometimes I feel like it's still “me” or “us” that is looking, and sometimes it feels like there's simply the space of awareness perceiving and the lines of personal identification get really fuzzy. And it gets even fuzzier when one is perceiving, say, another's viewpoint, and suddenly all there is in that second is the viewpoint being perceived. And then one turns to the next person and suddenly it's all one perception: self, other person, momentary opinion. And one IS that. And then some opposite view comes forth and all there is is: self, other person, momentary opinion. And those all merge together into…..something. This doesn't happen all the time to me. But sometimes.
Did I address your question at all?
Julia, chuckling, well we certainly hope that when we're in the “mess” chair, others show compassion! And when my buttons are pushed….I can be just as reactionary as the next person. Why my mom and I had a Democrat/Republican discussion last month in which my buttons were pushed so hard that I sounded like the most opinionated hard-ass definitive person on the planet. It was so interesting to suddenly be embracing a polarity with such gusto! You know, how one suddenly claps her hand to her mouth and says: “Did I say that?”
Elisa, dear: “Did you say that?” Oh no! Let's not go there. Buddhists are the most opinionated and attached people we know; Buddhists are the least opinionated and attached people we know. We're back in the circling around again. The way I see it is this: we're all opinionated and attached; we're all opinion-less and detached. It goes back to: what's choosing?
Starlight Dancing, a good point about the being human part. To me, that's the honoring of the voices of polarity. We honor the voice that says yes, we honor the voice that says no. We honor by making a space for all the voices. But lately there's another voice inside me shouting, “I don't care about all the voices!” Yikes, another opinionated voice to get to know better. Sigh….
Mimi, that stillness is good advice. My last blog talked about that: shhhhhhhhhh…… :) On the other hand, what if one witnesses words just coming out? What if one just watches speculation coming forth? When another part of self doesn't care to speculate, when other parts of self are detached, when some parts can't even stand using words at all. If there's still a part of us that wants or needs to speculate, I've learned that suppressing that need doesn't work. If there's no need…..how wonderful.
It's almost as if a part of us can watch us “get into the fray”, offer our opinion, realize that we're off balance or not centered, move into the silence or center, and from that new position embrace a greater peace. Maybe? P.S. when I'm 66 maybe I won't wonder/speculate about stuff anymore. Won't that be a fun new place to be, as well as this very place?
I don't know either Kathy, and I didn't really ask or expext 'answers' . They're just reflections and to me it's fun to see where they are going. Sometimes they get you way off in a 'mental place and sometimes they bring you right back here in the presence of now.
Anyway, yes it does get fuzzy sometimes and other times it ìs just the clear space of awareness perceiving. When I say it is 'still me or us' looking I wasn't referring to my personality identification. We Are the awareness but it is still perceived through our medium, we simply don't know other than that do we.
May be you should ask Paul Mc Cartney, he's over 64 isn't he? (Lol)
The idea of standing back and witnessing without judging can be useful at times, but even religions like Buddhism, which espouses non-dual thinking, also promote right action. We can engage in right action by making choices which actualize good in the world. People sat by and witnessed the Holocaust in Germany while innocent victims died. Do we sit by and watch the genocide in Darfur without doing our (even though it may be small) part to end it? Do we sit and watch people polluting our planet without doing our part to protect the environment? Do we simply witness the death of young Americans and Iraqi civilians, or do we protest an unjust war?
Right action consists of making choices. Even by not choosing and not acting, we are making the choice to not choose or to not act. Therefore, it behooves each of us to go within, listen to the voice dialogue within us, and make moral and ethical choices.
One of the choices we make almost every day is whom we select as our friends. Because friends can have a profound influence on our lives, the Buddha said, “If on the path you don't meet your equal, it's best to travel alone. There's no fellowship in fools,” and ” …remember: If you choose those unworthy of you, you will never experience real fellowship…” (Dhammapada 16, as cited in F. Metcalf, What Would Buddha Do?) For that reason, is it wise to have friends who harm others? We can have compassion for them and help them heal, but we don't have to enable them so that they can continue behaving in a less than loving manner.
Thanks, Alluvja, for coming back and clarifying. I tend to free-associate a lot, too, and just see what comes up.
Peace Seeker, I totally agree about right action. We make choices every moment….sometimes every second. Back to the choice what to have for dinner: ice cream or tofu? (it's gonna be tofu tonight.) We need to make the best informed wisest choices. All voice dialogue, or witnessing can do, is expand our options, to help us when we're making choices reactively or with larger awareness.
That's what's so amazing about this process is that the right action so often seems to arise naturally when awareness increases. It's almost like the heart of love rises from it. And then one decides to act in ways one perceives is most just or right. On the other hand, turn the kaleidescope a little and we see that everyone has different notions of what is right and just. There doesn't seem to be only one way of looking at things. And processes like Voice Dialogue (or sharing on Gaia) can give us many different ways to act rather than re-act from our conditioning.
As to the issue of friends, I am always in trouble over this one! For most of my adult life, I have had a friend who has trouble with another friend wanting me to disengage or not support the second friend. Usually those who love me usually come around and sigh and raise their eyebrows and figure out its either a character defect or deeply ingrained or something….and let it go. Why, a couple years ago I walked into my parent's church, radiated immediately towards the one person who was either the victim or perpetrator of the town….sat down, and started a dialogue with her. The entire church was horrified, as they had been shunning her.
But there is a fine line between enabling and leaving the doors open for engagement and discussion. Everybody does it in the way they see works best. There's also different kinds of friendship. Would I refuse to be friends with a murderer? Maybe “friends” would not be our exact relationship…..but I would probably still dialogue with that person, if possible. Maybe not. But today I think so.
Thanks for stopping by to comment.
smiles and smoochies
watching understanding connected to words
and understanding entirely disconnected with words and the things that stem from both
ty very much this is amazing
the Creator is such a good picker!!
Elisa, I love understanding connected to words! (when it happens….)
I am thinking about the issue of boundaries in a Voice Dialogue session. In a Voice Dialogue session, each voice is allowed to be heard. Quite often, one becomes quite interested in what the voices have to say (even some of the less “nice” aspects of ourselves, even the unrepentant or negative aspects of self.) The individual voices offer their viewpoints. And they “hold the eagle feather” while they offer their viewpoints. Part A does not get to speak while Part B is speaking. Each offers his or her truth as succinctly and truthfully as possible.
Part A is not allowed to respond until Part B is finished. Very clear boundaries of expression.
Let's say there's a part of Self that wants to be a rapist. (not that I've personally dialogued with any part of self that wants to be a rapist…yet!….but it could happen, perish the thought.) Then there's another part of self that thinks rapists should be castrated. So the two parts go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Each offers his or her opinion, without interrupting.
Finally the “real” person such as Kathy speaks up. The facilitator might say, “OK Kathy, you've heard the Rapist and the Castrator speak. What do YOU think?”
And Kathy says something like, “Well, I certainly don't want to act on being a rapist….and don't want to be a castrator either….but I guess I understand better where each part is coming from.”
Or something like that. Now the part that chooses takes into consideration the viewpoints of the rapist, the castrator, and Kathy. And the choice usually is one that is most appropriate to the present moment…..and that choice (in my experience) is often one that seems filled with more compassion, empathy, love and Presence. Right action seems to come from this, in a way that didn't exclude any of the parts.
I hope this is making a tiny bit of sense to someone!!
Thank you for seeing the eagle soar and recognizing the balancing act up there on the tightrope.
“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.” The paradoxes are infinite. The mirrors exquisite. Stuff just happens and then something more happens and on and on until … what. Who really knows? I chose to believe it goes on somehow and perhaps is recycled over and over again, beautifully useful.
Wishing you all the best - always - and sharing your prayer in discovery.
Deb
Awesome post K! You write so beautifully. Two sentences you wrote in one of your comments captured it for me.
“who is doing the choosing? That is one answer that completely eludes me.”
That is because the mind will never be able to know it or answer the question.
Who is choosing? Mind doesn't know.
Who has this viewopoint? Mind doesn't know.
What contains all of this? Mind doesn't know.
Mind never knows and still it tries to say what it is.
Fine, even that is contained in this, and still….not it.
How do I know. “I” don't. And yet something indescribable does…. without saying so and still we try to say so.
Beautiful paradox because everything is it and not it.
I love what John Austin has to say…
“This right now, as it is… this is the divine love that is sought
boundless Love appearing as this instant,
this feeling, this sensation, this thought. All of it divine, even the moments that mind would tell us are not… So relax, you can never stray from the only thing there is, this Ground out of which everything is arising, moment by timeless moment. All of it empty, and yet all of it so full, full with this Life that is in constant flux, even as it remains Itself through it all.
And all the while, there is never a self in any of it.
Experiences of divine love, no self.
Experiences of no-self, no self.
Experiences of self, no self.
Experiences of profound realization and opening, no self.
Experiences of contraction and fear and holding, no self.
Experiences of transcendence, no self.
Experiences of painful identification, no self.
We look, and in the looking discover that what is awake to the movement of thought is not thinking.”
The Beloved kicked down the door this morning and a poem started brewing that will be for you. It's is baking. :o)
Love,
b
Deborah, I love your energy and the way you listen to so many voices before deciding. It's awesome. Seems like you're doing the Voice Dialogue work really well. Your decision to act doesn't feel re-active to me…..it feels really full and informed and thoughtful and beautiful.
Having said that, I'm not trying to convert anyone to Voice Dialogue, heaven forbid. Just wanting to share something that has worked well for me, in my life….
Having said that, dear Zennie, who indeed is that “me” who is claiming such a thing? I love what you've written here. So beautiful, so eloquent. And, be still my heart! The Beloved kicked down the door this morning and a poem started brewing that will be for you. It's is baking. :o) The part of “me” that loves your poetry is already salivating, cuz it's surely going to be tasty. Thank you for answering the unanswerable question that lies at the root of all this. Who are these voices talking anyway? :)
Kathy,
I thought the comparison of Voice Dialogue with what happens at Gaia interesting and insightful. Thank you for always presenting so much food for contemplation. Love coming here. You never disappoint.
Wishing you the most perfect of pleasant and enjoyable weekends …
Deborah
Kathy,
I thought of you today as I posted this article about Divine Right Action into the Living Metaphysics pod. I think it says what you've been saying, simply using different words - I think you would enjoy reading it.
http://pods.gaia.com/living_metaphysics/discussions/view/351933#347857
Deb
Deborah, I did love your essay about Divine Right Action, and it did feel similar to what I was trying to express here. So many different ways of trying to talk about awareness that it feels inadequate at times to even try to express it. Thanks again for posting that article and for understanding about the deep listening that can sometimes expand and open us up beyond what we know or understand now.
Kathy, what a great blogpost, I really enjoyed reading it. Thanks to OM who made me aware of it.
And I loved where Zennie quotes John Austin (never heard of him, but I certainly will look for more)
“We look, and in the looking discover that what is awake to the movement of thought is not thinking.”
There is a a Zen saying “There is no need to seek Truth, Only stop having views”
It is our clinging to our views and opinions that cause our suffering and dissatisfaction. We have ideas about stuff and we just can't restrain ourselves from expressing them. I hear conversations where one person keeps saying, “The point is…..”
So someone has a different opinion or view ….so what? Do you have to correct them or put in your 2 cents or $2 worth? Do you respond negatively when others disagree with you, or say ridiculous stuff?
The secret is to be quiet, don't argue, smile, walk away, or say something neutral. When our ego keeps us hammering others with our ideas, we are causing others and ourselves irritation. We can just listen and not get all emotional about a differing view. We don't have to choose sides. We can choose not to choose as someone else has mentioned. That is a choice too.
We can keep our opinions to ourself - like not speak! Be still.
Taped to my computer desk:
“Be fixed in your actions,
be they great or small.
Lead a blameless life and
speak kindly to all.”
~~Mahaparinibbana Sutta
If we are commenting on, 'Around and around we humans go: where we stop nobody knows!' I have to say that we do know - or should I say that it is known by many?
We go to the state called nirvana and then, if we have not attained it by then, to that state I call blisstasy* which is the result of full enlightenment.
()
* See here.
Annemieke, I am so glad you found this, thanks to OM, and that you enjoyed it. Zennie's John Austin quote is great. What is awake to the movement of thought is not thinking….yes.
Dear Mimi, I agree that it is the clinging to views and opinions that causes so much suffering in our world. I don't know if the answer is to cease having views and opinions as in the Zen saying. I think the “answer” is to witness the views and opinions arising, without grasping at them with tight fists.
You are so very right (in my opinion) that we don't need to choose sides. We can witness one side arise, and then another side, and then another one. All arise, all fall away. We can witness ourselves with one viewpoint, and then another, and then another. The sides expand and contract, like the Universe. We can say one thing today, and another tomorrow. We can share with friends today; we can be silent tomorrow.
By the way, love that reminder on your computer to be fixed in our actions. To me that would be a reminder to be aware, to be awake. Thank you for sharing here.
Ian, yes, I've read at least a hundred books about that state of nirvana. Do you think it's known by many? Or just talked about by many? I spent more than twenty years looking for that place of enlightenment….what is most important to me in this moment is listening deeply deeply to whatever is coming up (all the arounds & arounds & arounds) and simply allowing it to be. Succeeding in that endeavor isn't even as important as it once was. By the way, your blogs look really interesting! Thank you for sharing….
Beautiful blog Kathy, it was a pleasure to read!
May the awareness in all of us , be lifted as a result.
Peace and love,
Sandy
Hello Centria,
Re: Do you think it's known by many? Yes
Or just talked about by many? Yes
“simply allowing it to be.” When we try to find something like this we block the result. Don't you agree?
Succeeding in that endeavor isn't important. It is such an attitude that fosters the result!
Good to make your acquaintance. :-) ()
Sandy, it was so cool that we were posting on each other's blogs at the very same moment! And am so glad you enjoyed reading this. And thank you for that awareness affirmation.
Ian, I like what you say about the attitude fostering the result! Good insight. It is indeed a pleasure to become acquainted.